Episode 16 – Full Transcript
Hey, everyone. My name is Lindsey. And you’re listening to nurse verse
Michelle: Hey, everyone. My name is Michelle.
Lindsay: And I’m Lindsey. And you’re listening to nurse verse. Hi, guys.
In today’s episode, we’re talking about visceral responses of the body
In today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about visceral responses of the body and how to train our mind and body.
Michelle: Yes. And we’ll give examples of, our own visceral responses that have been trained and untrained and how they have impacted our health and well being. So, first off, what is a visceral response? A, ah, visceral response is basically your body’s trained response to a certain stimulus. So our minds and our bodies will behave separately at times, and our bodies will react based off of a given scenario in the past and whether or not not that scenario was deemed dangerous or safe. And so your body kind of learns to respond and saying, last time we were in this scenario, this was unsafe or this was unfun. You did not enjoy it, you were in pain. So let’s avoid this going forward in the future. And so our bodies respond with a type of fight or flight response, warning us, saying, hey, can we not do this again?
Lindsay: Yeah. Like, why does our body do this?
Michelle: It’s done very purposely. This is to keep us alive. Our brains and our bodies are constantly analyzing every single thing that is happening in our environment and taking shortcuts to help us learn for the future if we’re in a similar situation, whether or not we think that this is going to help us survive or not, if it’s anything that’s going to put us in danger, our body or our mind will alert us, saying, hey, let’s avoid this. This is something that is very innate in us, and this is something that is an evolutionary response to us surviving as a human species. people who had really tuned in visceral responses to dangerous things were more likely to survive and not get eaten by a lion or a bear, et cetera, versus people who did not listen to those responses or did not have those visceral responses. So it’s a good thing if you do have these responses. A lot of people just don’t understand them. And because they don’t understand them, it can dictate their life. But today, we kind of want to unpack it a little bit because I think the more people actually understand them, then it makes sense, and then you’re less afraid of it, and you’re more able to make the adjustments that you want to make to live the life that you want to live.
Lindsay: Yeah. And some examples of, like, everyday examples of these visceral responses are needles.
Michelle: Needles is a big one.
Lindsay: Planes.
Michelle: Yeah.
Lindsay: Heights, clowns, and loud noises.
Michelle: But just.
Lindsay: I thought you wrote crowds because that’s also why.
Michelle: Well, yeah. Oh, my gosh. The list could go on and on for, like, all of the reasons why somebody would have a visceral response to something. And I think a lot of times, it’s just either somebody had a situation where it was not enjoyable or dangerous or something negative happened. And so their body learns from that moment forward saying, let’s avoid this. Let’s not do this again.
Lindsay: like, when I was younger, I was very terrified of needles. and I remember being stuck more than once trying to get blood. And I don’t know when it was, but I just decided, why am I scared? Or I decided to look and see, like, why am I afraid of this?
Michelle: Yeah.
Lindsay: like, why? And so I watched it, and I, like, taught myself, like, that. I’m not afraid. I’m just. I think what I was afraid of was not knowing when it was gonna happen and what it was gonna feel like. But then when I learned it’s only, like, a split second of, like, a little bit of uncomfortableness, I was okay.
Michelle: And I think a lot of people have that reaction to needles. Like, with patients I’ve had that will come in and say, I’m a really heart stick. I’ve been poked a million times. I’m terrified of needles. All of these things I always tell those people, like, that’s the normal response. That is completely appropriate for what our bodies are trained to do. Usually people that are, like, not afraid of needles or, like, healthcare professionals and people that it’s like, we’re a little different.
Lindsay: But also, I know doctors that are afraid of needles.
Michelle: Yeah, yeah. yeah. yeah. Ah, that too.
Lindsay: Yeah. And getting blood draws and everything.
Michelle: Yeah. Because it’s something sharp poking your skin, and it is going to cause you to bleed. All of those things are negative for the body.
Lindsay: And also, as a kid, you’re taught, like, you’re going to get a shot and you’re scared, but you’re going to get an ice cream after. It’ll be okay. So there’s something to fear. But fear not ice cream is after.
Michelle: That super confusing or, like, a happy meal.
Lindsay: So I think it’s instilled, from an early age, and then it’s up to you, like, whether or not you confront that. You face it head on by, like, looking and trying to unpack why it is they have that, visceral response to needles.
Michelle: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because there are some things like, it is good that your body does have a visceral response to not wanting to be stabbed is essentially what it is. When you’re getting blood drawn or getting an iv or something like that, that is an appropriate reaction. But if you want to be able to, like, go get your annual lab done without it being so stressful of an experience, there is maybe some retraining that needs to be done so that you’re. You don’t have to go through such a traumatizing moment every single time you have to get blood drawn. Since it’s done so frequently. And, and this is for people who are afraid of needles, it. I have seen countless. I’ve seen countless individuals overcome their fear of needles. So this is not far fetched. This is not out of reach. It’s just understanding what your body is trying to communicate, communicate with you and then working with it to get it to, retrain and focus. Like, this is not dangerous. I’m volunteering to do this. I need to do this for my health and well being. We’ll get into that later in the episode about how you’ll actually retrain your. Your response.
The importance of the visceral response. Um, and also helps you avoid negative situations
But also, I, like, listed out planes, heights, and clowns and loud noises and stuff, because I feel like those are probably some of the more popular ones, but those are just the ones that come to mind for me. But I’m sure there’s, like, so many people can think of.
Lindsay: Also, exes. We all have visceral responses to our exes.
Michelle: That’s different. That’s, like, an emotional, but that’s still. Yeah, I guess Gabriel is, like, visceral if you get indigestion. But anyways,
Lindsay: I think we should still include it.
Michelle: Like, I write show notes, and Lindsay’s always like, hold on, wait. What. What about this over here?
Lindsay: You forgot this little part, this little tidbit.
Michelle: If you can’t tell, I’m the one that likes to have an itinerary, and she’s the one that doesn’t like to have the itinerary.
Lindsay: Yeah, I like to adventure, go exploring, you know?
Michelle: But anyway, so back to some examples. just, like, a quick overview of the other, like, very common visceral responses, like, people’s visceral response to plane rides. this is another one that is extremely appropriate, and it’s a very appropriate response for you to not, like planes. Like, your body does not want to be locked in a small space with a lot of people thousands of feet up in the air. Like, that is so appropriate for your body to be like, this is a bad idea. it can be untrained. It can be untrained. You can, like, teach your body that this is a, ah, normal thing in 2024, for me to be on a plane, it’s safe.
Lindsay: Or there are meditative things you can do to zen yourself out while you’re on that plane to get yourself to get on it.
Michelle: So, yeah, planes, super, super common. And I think just a lot of times, if people have a bad flight, you have a lot of turbulence. Yeah.
Lindsay: Some crying kids.
Michelle: Yeah.
Lindsay: A, pooping dog.
Michelle: Yeah, whatever.
Lindsay: It might be somebody who shoves you in the seat and every time you turn around, they’re asleep.
Michelle: Yeah, it’s weird. So, yeah, there’s a lot of reasons why, you might be terrified of planes, but we’re gonna go into that later about how you cannot be terrified of planes. And then heights. Another one super appropriate. If you are up very high, your body is aware that if you were to fall, you will not survive, and hence why your body switches into a fight or flight response when you’re at heights. So again, another very appropriate one. And a lot of these, like, I think, can develop over time, too. You might be fine with a lot of these things when you were younger. And then you notice, like, as you get older, you start to develop these fears, so to speak, but. Or they can actually stem from childhood and then remain consistent until you do something about it. The importance of the visceral response. Obviously, your body is doing this on purpose. This is your built in alert button that your body is programmed to do to keep you alive and to almost create shortcuts so you don’t make the same mistake twice. and also helps you avoid negative situations or situations that potentially risk your own safety or security. So a lot of it based off of survival. But also, we do. Our bodies do a lot of things to create better automation. We are like computers in a big sense, where our brains are always trying to take shortcuts, and so are our bodies. Our bodies are trying to take shortcuts so you don’t have to process as much. If you’re in a similar situation, your body can recognize it much faster than you might even realize it, and so that it can help you avoid that situation faster versus maybe getting a little bit caught up in, and then it being too late. but also your body might pick up on stuff faster than your brain might sometimes. And this is what I like to call instinct. Your brain might not have, like, the rationale for why you should or shouldn’t do something, but your body knows. Your body knows. and I have a quick example of this. When, there was one time that I think I mentioned this in a previous episode, but I was swimming at Juno Beach. I was by the pier and I was in the water. And normally I’m not bothered by the fact that there are other sea creatures in the water with me, but this one day I was in the water and I just felt like there was something else in the water with me and something very, very big. It’s like, almost like, I don’t know, just like an energy or just like a sense. And so I got out of the water and it couldn’t have been more than five minutes later. The lifeguards are blowing the whistles and getting running up and down the beach, getting everybody out of the water. And it turns out there were a handful of blacktip sharks in the water, maybe 20ft from where I was swimming. So those instincts are things that I would say you don’t want to untrain. Like, that’s a good thing. That’s a really good thing. I was able to get myself out of a situation without having, like, an actual, without my brain actually rationalizing it. My brain had no, had no means to say why I should get out of the water, but my body was like, eh, ah, something’s off here. So, I like to say that because there are maybe some visceral responses that you might want to retrain, but other ones that are really good to have in place. And it is good to listen to your body and to, like, the better you can understand your body, the better off you’re going to be and the more in tune you can be with your body.
Lindsay: So sometimes around certain people, I get, like, nervous and my heart races and I know just to say hi and, like, keep walking. And my body has served me well on this on many occasions.
Michelle: You know, that’s a really good example. That is, like, people can be a trigger for a visceral response, especially if that person has been someone that you’ve experienced a lot of negative scenarios with, or that individual causes a lot of negative problems or angst for you.
Lindsay: Yeah. You notice, okay, my heart’s beating faster. I’m getting a little nervous. I know this, but, I don’t have to, like, dive into it. I could just let it pass like a wave over me and just get through it. Like, it doesn’t have to shape shift into my whole life.
If you go in with that mindset, being like, this person’s gonna cause problems
Michelle: Yeah, exactly. Cause then you don’t want it to impact your perspective of reality. Like, a lot of times it’s. If you go in with that mindset, being like, oh, my gosh, here’s this person, and she’s gonna cause a problem. And that’s all you’re thinking then, yeah, I. That person’s gonna cause a problem because it doesn’t matter what they say, you’re already going in with that mindset and that perspective.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Michelle: but then also it is. Can be good when it helps you, like, avoid certain people that you just don’t necessarily need in your life or.
Lindsay: If they have to be in your life and you want to remain professional.
Michelle: Yeah. Tread lightly and stuff like that.
Lindsay: So you just recognize the responses and work right through it.
Michelle: yeah, yeah. And be like, I. It’s almost like in your brain, you’re like, okay, yes.
Lindsay: Body.
Michelle: I hear the alert. I am, I am treading you lightly.
Lindsay: I am with you. I hear you, and I see you, and we’re gonna go right through it.
Michelle: And I agree. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Lindsay: And then after I’m like, good job. We got through that.
Michelle: Yeah, well, and that’s it. It’s like every time you this, like, the more you become aware of it, and then every time you go through that scenario, you. You create this sense of confidence and self esteem in yourself and in your body that, you know, like, you know, I can handle this. I’ll deal with it. It is. That’s just my body communicating with me. It’s not a big deal. I don’t need to make it a big deal, and I can choose what I want to do with that information now.
Vital responses can have impacts on your physical health as well as your well being
So, visceral responses can have impacts on your physical health as well as your well being. Because I would say that people that have a lot of visceral responses to things that maybe are more common are going to now experience almost like a chronic fight or flight symptom, or chronic stress because of it. And in those scenarios, I would say that it is less ideal. Ideally, nobody would want to be having a visceral response to things all the time. That sounds super stressful. Unless, you’re in an environment that is extremely stressful, like maybe somebody that’s in the military in a war zone. like, it’s just, that’s part of the nature of the job. but if you’re living in modern society, not in a dangerous environment, then ideally, most of the time, you should be nice and relaxed and not have to deal with the stressors of a visceral, response. And,
Lindsay: An example of undue stress. I feel like are a lot of patients who have what we like to call white coat syndrome.
Michelle: Yeah.
Lindsay: They get into the office, they seem kind of calm, but their blood pressure says the exact opposite.
Michelle: White coat syndrome is essentially a visceral response to healthcare professionals.
Lindsay: That’s true. Or any doctor’s office or office of any sort. Yeah, kind.
Michelle: Yeah. And also, I think visceral response has a massive impact on our, just our general overall well being. And that’s why we want to talk about it today, because a lot of times these visceral responses are just going to go unchecked and we will chalk it up to like, oh, that’s just the way I am. but we can do something about it in certain instances, and we can feel better if we do something about it. And so, and if we choose to not do something about it, sometimes it can just make our life smaller and smaller and smaller. Like, the more things you’re afraid of, the less life you get to enjoy, in a sense. it’s, just like, if you’re afraid of planes, maybe you’re not going to take that trip, you’re not going to go on that adventure because you don’t want to get on the plane. And for some people that might be fine, but for other people, it’s like, do you, like, ask yourself that question, like, do you want to make your life smaller in that sense? If you’re fine with it, then all right. But if you only knew what excitement and joy and adventure was on the other side, then I think you might choose otherwise. But you don’t know until you do it.
Lindsay: It’s the unknown.
Michelle: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Lindsay: We’re afraid of.
Michelle: Yeah. And then also it can, Changing and training your own visceral responses, too, can also have a massive positive impact on your well being as well. which I’ll mention towards the end here, that positive impact.
How can you retrain your visceral response through exposure therapy
But first, before I talk about that, I think we should talk about how you can retrain your visceral response. so, like a lot of things in life, it’s all repetition or whatever is persistent or consistent is what is going to win. And so, it’s going to take, depending on what your response is. And, you know, how much time it has taken for that response to develop it will dictate then how much time it will take potentially to retrain it. And, so I think unfolding it almost like reverse engineering it from there.
Lindsay: So, like, with me in holes and bumps and hives, like, since I’ve been having so many hives. So many outbreaks of hives. I can look at bumps more.
Michelle: It’s like less triggering.
Lindsay: It’s less triggering. I’m, like, staring at them now instead of looking away.
Michelle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Lindsay: When there’s poles, there’s a lot of construction going on around my workplace and a lot of poles. And I’m looking at them with holes and I’m kind of with all. And I’m kind of fine with it. Amazing.
Michelle: isn’t it cool how just. It’s like exposure. Exposure theory. Yeah. Exposure therapy. That’s all it is. Yeah.
Lindsay: When it’s on your body, it’s kind of hard to look away.
Michelle: Yeah. See, it was unpleasant. It’s uncomfortable to go through it. It’s so uncomfortable to go through the exposure therapy. Therapy. Thank you. But, but then, but then. Yeah, it’s great. Now. You’re not like, oh, my gosh. When you see a bunch of holes or core or. Agreed. When I was a kid, I, multiple times had been locked in a bathroom. Apparently one time I was like a couple months old. I don’t remember this. My mom said I locked myself in a bathroom on a cruise ship and they had to literally take down the door to get me out.
Lindsay: Too bad it wasn’t a closet.
Michelle: I know, the irony. and then it, like, happened to me a couple more times when I was a kid, to the point where when I was an adolescent, had a terrible, visceral response to bathrooms that were completely enclosed. Public bathrooms that were completely enclosed. It was like a door. There’s no, like, stall. Like, I was fine with stalls. If there was like a gap underneath the door, either underneath it or above it, and I knew I could get out, I was fine. But if the whole room was enclosed, I was like, hail to the. Now to the. No, no. Like, I would. I would not lock the door. I’d rather somebody walk in on me than me get trapped in there. I would leave the door cracked open a little bit. It was just like this, such. I, like, forget about this, that this was a real thing for me. but because you gotta go to the bathroom very frequently. You know what I mean? In life. In life, you just. You’re gonna have to deal with it. Like, you’re just. If you gotta go, you gotta go. So regardless of what that bathroom door looks like, so because of repetition, repetition and exposure therapy, I just eventually got over it, and now it’s fine. So your body can, through either repetition and exposure therapy.
Lindsay: Good job, babe. I never knew that about you.
Michelle: I know I never told you that.
Lindsay: Yeah, you come.
Michelle: So I forgot about it until I was writing the outline for this episode. I literally was like, yeah. so through exposure therapy, that’s one way that you can retrain it. It’s just like, incidentally, like, I’ve had a lot of patients that are terrified of needles that volunteered to come and get iv’s, and they knew they were afraid, but they still sat down anyways. They still gave me their arm. And, you know, we might make a routine of it wherever I, you know, we would do the exact same process every time. I would let them know. They would look away. We would have a whole little thing, and then before we knew it, they were totally fine with the needles. It’s just, you slowly, through consistency, retrain your body to know that it’s okay. And also, I think when there is a positive result, that also further quickens the retraining. Like, when people would get iv’s, they would feel so much better after the iv. So because you have a positive physical response from the iv, it, further encourages your body to retrain and say, oh, all right, wait, this is a good thing. Like, I’m benefiting. I feel better from it, so I don’t need to be afraid of it. This isn’t dangerous. This is actually beneficial for me. I think that is another way to retrain as well. Not only through consistency, repetition, and exposure therapy, but also ensuring that you have a positive outcome, positive experience either during or on the other end of it.
Some people have visceral responses to cats or dogs
Lindsay: I don’t know if this fits in, but some people have visceral responses to cats or dogs. If they had, like, a terrible experience when they’re.
Michelle: For sure, I don’t. Yeah. Like, I, as a kid, I treated cats like dogs, so I would pet them like, I would pet a dog and talk to them or play with them like they were a dog, but they’re not. Cats are very different. And because of that, I got clawed, hissed at all kinds of things. So I made the assumption that these cats were mean, dangerous, didn’t like me, whatever it was. And so I had an actual, like, negative, visceral response to cats. Like, I was afraid of cats until I met Lindsay. Until I met your parents. Cats.
Lindsay: Kobe.
Michelle: Well, Kobe specifically, not Big D is terrifying. Nobody messes with big D. Big D was like, that’s. That’s why I didn’t like it.
Lindsay: That’s why I stay away from big G. But, Kobe is just the biggest, sweetest, cutest kitty, fluffiest and such a love bug. You hold him and he just melts into your arms. You could hold him all day.
Michelle: He does not have a mean bone in his body in this cat.
Lindsay: You could pet him anywhere. Hold him, like, put him down. He loves to be held.
Michelle: Yeah.
Lindsay: And Michelle fell in love.
Michelle: I really did. He was. He’s just, like, the sweetest cat ever.
Lindsay: All she had to do was meet him. And her cat. Her love for cats is limitless now.
Michelle: Yeah. Well, and I think just like that with animals in general, because animals are, well, I’m biased. We love animals. And so there were so many things when I was a kid that I, grew to be afraid of, like, snakes, too. snakes and different reptiles, tiles and things. But then it’s like, the second I hop that one positive experience. That one positive experience is so just the game. It complete for animals. Completely flips it. Like that cute snake that we saw.
Lindsay: Was it homo sauce?
Michelle: Yeah. Homosassa Springs.
Lindsay: Yeah, it was like a state park. Yeah, kind of like. Yeah, it was a state park.
Michelle: Never liked cat. Never liked snakes in my life.
Lindsay: Yeah, me either. The other day we saw a snake, and we’re like, oh, should we pick it up? It was red and black, and I didn’t know the saying or the rhyme.
Michelle: Ah, speaking of wild animals, here comes the beast.
Lindsay: Yeah. So, yeah.
Michelle: So it could even be. You could retrain your response with as simple as one very, very impactful, positive response is enough at least one event.
Lindsay: To change the game.
Michelle: I mean, that’s what did it for me with cats, with snakes. Also, I like to use this example as well. if anybody has ever done boxing, muay Thai, jiu jitsu, any type of fighting sport, when you are learning how to fight, whether it be boxing, muay Thai, jiu jitsu, whatever it is, you are essentially training your body to do the opposite of its instinct. So, for example, if somebody throws a punch at you, our natural response, and I would say maybe for majority of people, is to pull away. Like, the punch is coming at you, and you’re gonna pull your head away like this to come away from the punch. But when you’re learning how to box, you need to do the opposite of that. When some. When a punch is coming at you, you don’t want to pull away. You want to actually come towards it and duck down. So it’s gonna, like, look like this instead of this. Because when you duck down like this, this is gonna put you in a position now of power or attack. So, when you learn how to do that. So normally, if you’re in a fighting situation now, you’ve kicked into fight or flight response, and at that point, our brains have very little control, and now our bodies are really taking over. Our bodies are what is responsing. What our bodies are trained to do is how the response is gonna play out. And so the more trained somebody is physically in that fighting sport, the more you’re going to be able to counteract that natural response that your body’s doing. And I have to say, for anybody that’s experienced this, if you’ve never trained your body at that level and then you go and train your body, you don’t think about it, you just do it. And then when you just do it in the moment that you need to do it, in, like, in a fighting scenario, you’re like, oh, my gosh, it’s like such an adrenaline rush and such a, empowering feeling to do that. And, so I think that’s why so many people love fighting sports. One, it’s just a huge adrenaline rush, but also it’s like a huge self confidence boost. It’s a huge self esteem boost. and when you learn how to train your body to counteract its natural physical responses, now you can start to do that same type of training in other scenarios in your life. You see it. You’re able to almost, like, take a step back and see it for what it is in those moments of fight or flight versus just allowing your body to play out the way it wants to play out now, it’s something that you can actually, we’re like, oh, do I want to respond like this, or do I want to respond like that?
Lindsay: Yeah, but maybe we should clarify. When you mean. When you talk about fighting sports, you mean kickboxing? You mean like the white tie that you had referred to?
Michelle: Yes.
Lindsay: It’s a controlled scenario, in a way.
Michelle: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like, when I’m talking about fighting sports, I’m not saying, like, go find somebody on the street to fight. Like, just to clarify. No, no, no. Like, I did. I went to a boxing and fighting gym. This was a controlled setting. I was training to be able to perform the sports of boxing, muay Thai, jiu jitsu, UFC, and, I. I mean, I personally loved it.
When you retrain your visceral response, the positive outcomes are truly endless
This is definitely not.
Lindsay: She did. She loved it. She was good at it.
Michelle: I honestly, I can’t recommend it enough.
Lindsay: Not for me. Too much sweat on the floor, so too much toes in my face, sweat and juices.
Michelle: I took Lindsay once to a. Was it jujitsu? Yeah, yeah. It was a jiu jitsu class. And afterwards, Lindsay kind of ruined jiu jitsu for me because she was like, babe, everybody’s bare feet are on the mat, and then your face is on the mat. And I, like, didn’t I never thought about that.
Lindsay: And you’re wearing a rock, and you’re sweating, and you’re, like, tumbling on top of each other, and you’re, like, so gross. sandwiched in cookies, like, fortune cookie shapes. On top of each other. On top of you. I’m like, no.
Michelle: Yeah.
Lindsay: No.
Michelle: Yeah. No. Lindsay could care less. Lindsey could care less about that. She could care less about that adrenaline rush. Like, whatever she gets that rush from sitting on the couch with some tea in her hand, a book, and her.
Lindsay: And cat and a psych thriller. Absolutely. Yes.
Michelle: To each their own. To each their own. But, yeah. So, if you want to learn how to retrain your visceral responses or your body’s natural responses in a fight or flight situation, go learn to do a fighting sport in a controlled scenario.
Lindsay: Join a controlled.
Michelle: Yeah, join a boxing gym. but anyways, with that, we’ll leave it off with, the fact that when you do retrain your visceral response, the positive outcomes are truly endless. but I think a lot of the things that we touched on today are just increasing your self confidence, increasing your self esteem, self awareness. Yeah. Your connection with your body and your understanding of your body. and expanding your life, being able to explore more adventure. Go see the world.
Lindsay: Not, be trusted within yourself.
Michelle: Yeah, that.
Lindsay: You got it. You can do it. Whatever it is.
Michelle: That self confidence greater than the fear. Yeah. Yeah, that. Yeah, you can. You can do it. You can get over it. You can get through it. and also the fact that it’s like, once you do, you start to think to yourself, what else can I do? Well, if I could. If I did that, what’s next? What can I do next? yeah.
Lindsay: Well, thanks, guys, for listening. Thanks for watching.
Michelle: Okay, thanks. Bye.
Lindsay: Okay, thanks. Bye.